SCIP Ep. 1 with Tina McIntosh
The Social Care Innovation Podcast Episode #1 with Guest Tina McIntosh. Tina is the Founder of Joy’s House and Caregiver Way.
Guest: Tina McIntosh, Founder and President of Joy’s House Adult Day Service
Mary 00:01
Welcome to SCIP: The Social Care Innovation Podcast.
Jonathan Haag 00:12
I'm Jonathan Haag
Cody Pittman 00:14
and I'm Cody Pittman.
Jonathan Haag 00:15
Join us as we dive into the dynamic world where healthcare and social care intersect, exploring the vital link between health and the factors that shape our lives beyond the hospital walls.
Cody Pittman 00:29
Each week, we sit down with experts, thought leaders and advocates who are reshaping the landscape of care delving deep into the social determinants of health, the impact is all.
Jonathan Haag 00:38
From community health initiatives to innovative policy solutions. We're here to blend the best ideas, insights and experiences to create a healthier, more compassionate world.
Cody Pittman 00:51
So grab your headphones and join us on this journey through the Care Blender. Because when it comes to health, every story matters. Tina, it's good to be with you. Thank you for hosting us in your studio.
Tina McIntosh 01:03
Sure. Yeah. You're stuck with me. Jonathan can't be here. So I'll do my best to play a Jonathan role.
Cody Pittman 01:08
This is your podcast studio. This is your... You typically have a radio show out of here.
Tina McIntosh 01:13
We do. Yeah, we've had a radio show out of this studio at Joe's house for I don't know, a couple of years on this side of COVID. That I know.
Cody Pittman 01:22
And what does that radio show normally cover?
Tina McIntosh 01:24
So it's called caregiver crossing. And we are a radio show for folks who are caregivers. Those of us who are caregivers, or one day we'll be which is pretty much everybody. And we used to be in studio downtown Indianapolis with Emmis Communications. They were so good to us. But the reality is it was every Tuesday, drive down, find a place to park, get your guests to come in, greet them go up to the fourth floor and make sure we're in the right studio, make sure all the equipment is working because it belonged to the studio and you know all the things. And we were like, if we're gonna keep doing this after we did it for about 10 years, we need it to be more convenient. And so we are in a studio that we've soundproofed and we have incredible equipment, right down the hall from our offices.
Cody Pittman 02:09
For those who don't know, Indianapolis is a wonderful city to drive around. It's very easy to get downtown. But finding parking specifically, is a garbage activity.
Tina McIntosh 02:18
It's a true story.
Cody Pittman 02:21
We've had a few times together, planning some events, going to your launch events. But I don't think I've ever
Tina McIntosh 02:31
Drinking tequila.
Cody Pittman 02:31
Drinking tequila. We've never had the I've never had the opportunity to hear more of your backstory of like how you've kind of gotten here. So let's start there.
Tina McIntosh 02:38
Oh, goodness. Okay. Joy's House we started 25 years ago.
Cody Pittman 02:38
And that's an adult day center. Right?
Cody Pittman 02:41
We are so we we started as a not for profit adult day center. We can get into the details of like, why not for profit or for for profit, you know, other things. But yeah, that was 25 years ago, I was 27 years old. I was just a little wee little baby. No offense Noah, our producer in studio with us because he's like, I'm not 27 yet, but it's okay. You're wonderful. You're better than I was. The very long story made short, you're welcome to ask any questions is I had volunteered. I love when people start stories like this, by the way, like when I was seven. But when I was in college, I went to Ball State University here in Indiana. And I was in a sorority. I loved it for a lot of reasons, one of which was I had to do philanthropic volunteer hours. And so I did a lot of different areas of life. The one that got stuck in my soul was working with aging adults. I was at an adult day service in Muncie that's unfortunately no longer there. And something about that experience just got into my spirit and wouldn't leave. So I went on did other things like we do, and became an event planner. I loved event planning. I was an event planner for the Colts which by the way, really cool gig to be contracted by the Colts to do three in the morning. You're either setting up or tearing down an event it didn't matter. And yeah, so I had some personal tragedies. I had one of my best friends committed suicide. That's makes you dig deep, right? And then my biological father who was an alcoholic. I hadn't talked with him for a couple of years. He was beaten by five guys with baseball bats, and they left him for dead. He lived he just passed away last year. So I got really introspective. And my mom took me on a cruise surrounded me by water, which is my spiritual place. And I came back and told everybody, I'm going to quit my job. I'm going to do this adult day thing. And everybody was like, okay, crazy. Like, literally thought I had lost my mind. They planned an intervention. I mean, it was yeah, like it was a thing to them worked for me over the years, which was my best day when I'd be like, Oh, remember when you thought I'd lost my mind. Here's your paycheck. Um, but I really, I didn't necessarily want to start in adult day, I thought I would work for another one, but none of them had the same vision. They weren't set up with the same. I don't want to take away from any other adult days, it just was different than what I had, you know, in my spirit. And so, yeah, quit my job. And I did everything short of hope you don't offend prostitution and drug dealing for about three years, like, literally cleaned houses for two and a half years. Sure, I would do whatever it took if it was legal, and ethical and safe, you know, to make money. And thank God for flip phones at the time, because I was like Superman, I would, I would clean houses in the morning, and then I changed my clothes and be working on my flip phone, and then I'd walk into a meeting that afternoon. So
Cody Pittman 05:43
Sure, sure. I think you said your friends were staging, interview intervention, then some of them are going to work for you. Yeah. I'm not about to call your friends haters. But a part of entrepreneurship is prove the haters wrong.
Tina McIntosh 05:57
Ah, yes, yeah. Well, it doesn't make any sense when you know, from an innovation standpoint, when something's in your head, and the best thing you can get it out on is a napkin, which was pretty much how I worked, you know, like, it doesn't make sense to people around you. And looking back, I don't blame them for not understanding it. They didn't have the same vision at the time. So you know, I get that.
Cody Pittman 06:20
I think, well... last week, I was talking to a young entrepreneur, and she was looking at event planning, like a really interesting combination event planning, in real estate, like, I don't want to out the complete idea, because she might pursue it. t But you know, amongst kind of helping her with her resume, what the other thing I said to her is like, hey, it's really easy to back out of an idea, especially when it's kind of like, it's it's stepped it stage, you can go buy your domain. That's a very little cost... that's a very little amount of investment. And then you put the content in, and then you start talking to customers. Maybe some of them say no, maybe some of them say yes, and then you do the thing. And then you do thing, and you tip over domino after domino. You can back out of that at any time and go back to whatever you were doing. But the entrepreneurial journey is like, it's just starts by tipping over a domino.
Tina McIntosh 07:19
Yes. I mean, people often say, because Joy's House went from this little tiny concept right now we have two locations for Adult Day, we've got caregiver support and education programs. I mean, it's way bigger. I mean, we I don't even know our budget right now over 2 million, you know, annually, which when you start with nothing is huge. And the amount of good that we're doing. The best advice I got in the very beginning was somebody said, Do One Thing towards your goal every day? Now, that might have been a phone call some research, you know, getting a donation, praying about it, crying about it, talking about it. And I find that that is really good advice with everything in my life. You know, if I want my marriage to be the best marriage possible, I need to do one thing toward that goal every single day. I can't have a day where I overlooked my husband. You know, it's the same with anything. So it's business and personal. Really. Now I take that to heart like one thing every single day.
Cody Pittman 08:19
Yeah, I, the way that I phrase it is like, hey, what's the most important thing I can get done today? Sometimes it really is like a phone call to an investor. Sometimes it's call your, you know, one of your employees or one of your team members that's struggling like some of those. Sometimes when you say that, it feels like it's got to be huge. The reality is, it's like, there's a task that you got to get done. That's gonna, that's gonna kind of start the momentum in the direction.
Tina McIntosh 08:44
So here's a an, you know, a year leading this, but let me just say this. I wrote a book last year, okay. And I love the book. I love sharing the book. I love doing speaking engagements about the book. It's called Embrace the imbalance. It's kind of how I live my life. And I don't do one thing every day, right? If I did even a small thing, send an email, do a social media post, whatever it is, if I did one thing every day, I could really build I think that brand and what I'm doing with it, but it's not my priority right now. I think about it every day. And then like, yeah, you can wait till tomorrow. If I did one thing into your point, not huge. Just one little thing every day. That would have a different momentum than it does. But it doesn't.
Cody Pittman 09:30
Speaking of one thing, though, in addition to Joy's, who was 25 years ago, right, 25 27?
Tina McIntosh 09:36
25 years.
Cody Pittman 09:37
25 years ago, Joy's House came into the world. But not too long ago, a couple of months ago, we were right here. Launching your innovation project. What can you share about that?
Tina McIntosh 09:49
I can't share our partnership, which I wish I could
Cody Pittman 09:52
I understand that I've seen those contracts.
Tina McIntosh 09:56
But Caregiver Way is an online community for family caregivers. And I think, you know, those words are used in a lot of places. And there's a lot of really good work being done. This is unlike anything we could find. This whole thing started as a social innovation project. If anybody knows Wesley Cate, Wes ran that social innovation group for us, we contracted with him and the group. And we said to them, there is a huge gap for family caregivers. This was prior to COVID. So now the gap is even bigger, right. But there's a huge gap for family caregivers in the state of Indiana. Joy's House has been peer nominated by big players and little like to fill the gap and come up with something creative. Now go, and it needs to be a revenue stream for Joy's House. Got it? So here's everything we've got Have at it. So Western team, were working on it. And then internal team staff was working on it. And my sister who's co founder for caregiver week, came back and said, you know, what, if it looked like this, and we kind of played with that idea. And then Western team came back and said, what if it looked like this? And by the grace of God, they were the same, I mean, very similar, right? So we started this, this platform, it goes actually goes live this summer, although people can be members now. And yeah, it's a place for caregivers to come and one realize that they're not the only ones caregiving. There's some introspective aspects to it with some journaling and assessments. But the the heartbeat of it is vignettes in five different categories for family caregivers, and very quickly their self care because what does that mean? Like, you know, if you're a caregiver, people say, Cody, just take care of yourself, right? And I call BS on that. It's like what so I sleep and I eat my greens and I drink my water, and everything will magically be okay with care for my mother. Like, that's not how that works. So practically speaking, kind of like masterclass and Tiktok had a baby, huh. Okay. So masterclass. Tiktok get together. I don't know, maybe it's a one night stand, there's a baby. And the baby is these, these, you know, vignettes that we've got it, but self care caring for your loved one financial and legal, and of life care. And then life after caregiving, which nobody's talking about. And we find here in Indiana, I won't get on my platform. But I will say this in the state of Indiana, the state of aging report in 2023. The people who responded as caregivers, I think it was like 35%, I always feel like I get the percentage wrong, said that in the last 30 days they had considered suicide, because of the stress of their caregiving.
Cody Pittman 12:39
Right. Right. I was talking to a studio group that's fairly large and national, they spit out new companies, like once a quarter, I was talking to them, they have a partnership with an insurance company and I was talking to them about caregivers specifically. And I use some of the content you just said and painting a broad picture for them that there are lots of factors that go into a caregivers life. And the thing that, you know, both of us have dealt with dementia quite a bit in professionally or personally, and is watching a relationship with somebody that you deeply care about and have wonderful memories with just completely deteriorate into nothingness. And I've tried to these are two young innovators. And I'm trying to say like, just imagine what that would feel like, yeah, the most important relationship you have in your life is just gone. But it's not blink of an eye. That was actually painful, but very fast. It's slowly over time, this person completely changes. And that's one of the many things that caregivers have to deal with.
Tina McIntosh 13:47
Yeah, I mean, let's call it the longest goodbye for a reason, right? Yes. But emotionally, physically, financially. I mean, there's a lot that goes into caregiving. There's a lot that makes it beautiful. But it's down to you know, in caregiver way without, you know, I know, that's not why we're here, but it's like, how do you? How do you shave your loved ones face who has dementia? Because the act of shaving if I came to shave your face right now feels right, I'm in your space, he just like pulled away like, like, I'm in your space. I'm too close to you. And I'm coming at you with this thing. And I'm pulling out your face and it hurts, right? So how do you do that? So there's a two minute video on how to shave your love shave your loved ones face? Or how do you really take a moment for yourself? What do you do in that moment to regroup? The financial legal, I'm kind of like Womp womp kind of boring, but sorry to all my lawyer, you know, and financial friends out there. But the reality is, if you don't have that in place, you're done. Right, everything else gets harder. And so there are so many pieces of information in this Site, and it's all vetted and approved by a content advisory Reporting. I can trust it. Right? Yeah, I'm, it's really hard to explain caregiver way. But if you go to visit caregiver way.com, the visit is important visit caregiverway.com. You can
Cody Pittman 15:11
visitcaregiverway.com. It'll be hyperlinked when I put the transcript out, but thank you. Did you ever think that this is where you'd be launching a tech media company?
Tina McIntosh 15:22
No, no, no. Like, did I ever think that last five years or throughout my entire life? I mean, the answer is still no, it doesn't really matter, right? Absolutely not, I don't even know. You know, before COVID, we'd come up with this concept. COVID time helped us to be able to do a deeper dive into it and helped us all realize how much can be done online. So that really, in kind of a sick and twisted way gave us a boost into this. But did I ever think I would be doing this? No, I didn't think I would be doing this at all.
Cody Pittman 15:57
I think it's pretty interesting. A lot of people happen, happen into things like this. Now, I said this to you, you were on a panel, the first time I kind of chatted with you, you were on a panel. And I was hiding behind zoom. But I said like That's right. You clearly are an entrepreneur. But like, there's something about this tech media that felt like a departure from what you're used to.
Tina McIntosh 16:22
For sure. I, you know, the whole imposter syndrome thing. Sure that we have all felt throughout our lives. I didn't even recognize it as that necessarily. And I'd say a year ago, Cody, this isn't just like, oh, 10 years ago, you know, like a year ago, I remember going to a big tech conference here in Indianapolis. And thinking as I was walking down the long halls of the Indiana Convention Center, what in the world am I doing here? Like, what am I doing here? I don't understand the language. These are not my people. Like this is not where I are, we shine right as Joy's House. And then I turned the corner, literally turned the corner. And somebody else was walking in and we started a conversation. And I was like, Oh, that's a human like, we just connected, you know, see you later at the conference. And then I walked down the hall and and then I saw somebody that I knew. And then I stood in line to get coffee, and some guy started talking. And he was like, super duper techie. And yet, somehow we communicated like, so as the day went on. I was like, and I'm gonna say I and by that I mean, we, for Joy's House and for caregiver way caregiver ways as a, an LLC of of Joy's House. But I was like, I absolutely belong here. Why would I think I didn't have a place at this table? Right? I have a place at the table.
Cody Pittman 17:44
Right. I think. Now, I asked you, did you ever think that you'd be an entrepreneur, or at least in this way, launch a tech media company? I told Jonathan, in our first episode...hasn't been edited yet. It'll come out soon, guys, I promise. I told him that will 10, you know, my prior to launching duet, the thing that I was doing for 10 years was I was the head of sales for a digital marketing firm. So my clients were anything from major consumer brands to tech companies, you've never heard of that, that raised millions of dollars and then disappeared like that. And so I think it's actually coming into the social care space and joining you and Jonathan, who have been doing this for your entire careers, almost making sure people understand that you can go actually get traditional capital, from the locations that all these other tech companies get it and bring it into the social care home care space.
Tina McIntosh 18:46
Okay, let's talk about that.
Cody Pittman 18:48
Yeah, because to be clear, Duette has done that, right. We have both raised we have both raised money from inside of our space with some of the partners that you're aware of. But we have also raised it from traditional startup investors that are not in health care, not in social care. They just knew that they either like the team or they liked your idea.
Tina McIntosh 19:09
So one of the companies that we will be able to launch soon, we just can't yet so we can't announce them yet. We have had local and national meetings now they've most of them have been via zoom doesn't matter in this day and age. Right, what's still a meeting. I think they're real people. I have said in a couple of those meetings, when we started in the, I'd say the beginning of the kind of middle of his conversations, I would say to the folks on the call, if you are looking for somebody to come in, who is going to be buttoned up, get all the language be able just to have a very, you know, fluid conversation about these things. Who's going to come in wearing suits or you know, for the women, nobody, I don't think anybody wears clothes anymore, but you know, like, like, we're just like super salesy, right. You got the wrong people. If you want people Get what we're talking about and have the entrepreneurial spirit and are willing to work with you to make the best possible product for the end user, which in this case is is family caregivers, then we're your people. I mean, come on Cody, I just said short of prostitution and drug dealing on your podcast, like, we're not going to be the shiniest sharpest people in the room from that respect. And we're not going to change to satisfy other people. We just want to be human. Right? So. And the response I've gotten from these people at a very high level in these companies has been, do you know how refreshing that is? Like, we get people in here all the time, basically blowing smoke at us, right? And that's so nice to know. And I'm like, cool, we're gonna get along just fine.
Cody Pittman 20:48
Yeah, a lot of...health... When you get into traditional health care, it's about like, Hey, we're gonna save you 1%, or we're gonna save you 2% of your blah, blah, blah fees. And that's a lot of money at that level. But we're sitting here going, like, hey, we care about one human being, we want to save one human being. Like, that's not millions and millions of dollars. It's super important when it's like, Hey, we're a mission driven organization.
Tina McIntosh 21:15
Do it for the one
Cody Pittman 21:16
That wants to be profitable, wants to be scalable, but we are going to do whatever it takes for the one?
Tina McIntosh 21:20
Well, and we're gonna Yes, and for me, I'm gonna follow my faith. And I'm not going to apologize for that. I'm not going to push it on anybody else. But I'm going to do what I feel like God wants me to be doing right. I'm going to show up as myself. Because if I'm not my authentic self, I will shrivel and die. It's just how I made, you know, and we're going to do it for the one and no, that really, we're doing it for the one, but it's going to touch. Right, so many more than that. Because we also, you know, for us know that we've got a really good business mind. I mean, I think there are a couple things that, that come to my mind that I think are worth sharing here too. And one is, you know, people always ask me like, Well, how did you at the age of 27, start this thing that's now become a week at best adult day in the nation years ago, like we've done really well. In a number of things are one, we have a good business mind, we have a great culture. I was at a very young age smart enough. I don't know how but I was smart enough to know that I was only going to be as good as the people I surrounded myself with meaning you're smarter than I am, in a lot of ways. Noah and I have Noah, our producer here has only known me like we've only known each other for a few months, really known each other. He is I can already tell you, he's so much smarter than I am in a lot of ways. And I surround myself by people who are smarter and better than me, and a lot of ways. And ironically, that doesn't make me look stupid, right, which I think is a lot of people's fear, right? It actually makes me look smarter. And it just makes a difference. And so I think, you know, if one person listening to this is like, Oh, I don't need to show up as somebody else I need to show up is me and where I have short, you know, shortcomings I find somebody better. Cool. Do that.
Cody Pittman 23:06
I don't want to miss attribute this quote. So I'm just not going to even try to...
Tina McIntosh 23:10
Oh, no, please do today. This is going to be really interesting.
Cody Pittman 23:13
Well, I'm not going to say who I think so got it. The quote is going to be, I'm going to paraphrase something that is right. I'm just not going to say the name because I'm probably wrong. But hire smart people, and let them tell you what to do. Don't hire smart people, and then tell them what to do.
Tina McIntosh 23:29
Yes, I think Noah one you've probably even noticed, you know, in meetings, there are a lot of times where we'll something will get posed. And I wait. Because just because I have the title of founder or president or CEO doesn't mean I have all the answers. Like I will say, What do y'all think?
Cody Pittman 23:44
Well, I do know that this was Jeff Bezos, at least this next one was he he speaks last because he knows as soon as he opens his mouth, and there's just gonna be bias towards whatever he says.
Tina McIntosh 23:55
I mean, listen, he and I have so much in common.
Cody Pittman 23:58
I know me too. Same. Yes.
Tina McIntosh 24:00
But it's true. It's true. And and I find that from an entrepreneur innovation perspective, I often don't show up meaning I work remotely now a lot. Why? Because if I'm here, particularly on the adult day side of things, people look at me and be like, we're gonna serve lunch now. Is that okay? I'm like, yeah. Is it lunchtime, like, you know, so sometimes it's just not showing up so that other people will take the lead by design, right, with intention and with communication. Now, I'm sure that Jonathan said this. And I apologize. I've not listened to the first podcast just yet. Because you haven't edited it.
Cody Pittman 24:39
Because I haven't edited it and release it.
Tina McIntosh 24:41
But when you do, I will. And Jonathan is really good at saying innovation has to come from within the best it that's not how he says it. I did miss I just misquoted him. The Best Innovation often comes from within. And I do a lot of speaking engagements. And it's really great when I quote him, and watch the audience because the problem is, particularly in this realm of health care, we're all so busy doing the thing Cody, like, we don't have time to innovate. And so you have to set aside that time, whether it's by yourself or with other people, but sit down and write the I mean, the the big dreams, right? I hate the B.H.A.G term but you know, it's true,
Cody Pittman 25:22
Big Hairy Audacious Goal B.H.A.G
Tina McIntosh 25:25
I don't like it. It's gross to me. Actually.
Cody Pittman 25:27
It's well, the does have big hairy like, and the acronym
Tina McIntosh 25:33
feels icky. But I do appreciate that if you could. If you could do anything. Yeah. What would you do? Right and put it out there and then start doing one thing every day. Right?
Cody Pittman 25:46
So you said you like quoting Jonathan, watch people you'd like quoting Jonathan watching people in an audience be like, huh, this is Oh, man. I'm gonna sound like A hole saying this out loud. But my favorite? No, you're not. There's a there's a section of Jonathan's office, where it's just a bunch of post it notes. And this is the part that sounds like an a hole. They're all my quotes. There are things that I've said out loud to him. And he's like, Oh, I like that. And he writes down a quote, I get so much satisfaction every time that happens. I don't really do it on purpose. Sometimes I go in there like, Oh, my God, I got to tell Jonathan this thing, and maybe I'll get a post it note out of it.
Tina McIntosh 26:17
Okay, but but let's get a post it note out of it that like that's your goal for the day?
Cody Pittman 26:20
Ah Yes! Well, you know, when you're in elementary school, and you get a gold star on your on your task chart, you know, that's that's my fifth grade achievement.
Tina McIntosh 26:29
But here's part of the issue. I think when it comes to innovation, and being an entrepreneur is it's that very thing. We are so humble about things right. And you're younger than I am, as I get older, I find them a little more bold than I used to be. But you do the math. I was 27. When I started Joy's House, that was 25 years ago. I'm 52 People like, here we are right. But it doesn't make you in a hole for being for being proud to get the gold star. But I also appreciate that you're humble about it, right? But Jonathan is doing the very thing I'm talking about he is surrounding himself by people who are better and smarter than him. And in other areas. You're one of those people, which is part of what makes Jonathan so wonderful, right? And wise and smart is that he's surrounded by people like you. So I don't know. I think sometimes we we do that hold downplay kind of a thing. So when I do these speaking engagements, I often say like, Okay, I was asked to do one recently, and they said, Come you have 30 minutes, come tell us your life experiences. And talk about being a trailblazer. Okay, I was like, this will be easy, like settling people. Here we go, you know. And so I talked about the things that were saying here, but I told them, I got a very nice award last year. And it took me the entire year. I'm like, my reign is over people. It took me the entire year to be able to put my shoulders back and kind of take a deep breath and say, I was USA Today's Woman of the Year for the state of Indiana. There's no but why do I feel kind of like small and ashamed in that when I would say it out loud? You don't I mean, like, so own your post-Its man. You are the post-it You are the post-it man?
Cody Pittman 28:14
I guess. So. I'm one of those things, though, goes kind of back to one of those quotes on the wall goes back to imposter syndrome and why people should take that first step. I said something to Jonathan. And it was actually about kind of like a project that he and I are working on. But it was like, hey, until we get a "No", from the most important person in this project, like the customer that we're trying to sell this idea to, until they literally tell us no, there's no reason for us to not pursue this. Like we should keep going until we get a definitive No.
Tina McIntosh 28:44
That's a great way to think about it.
Cody Pittman 28:46
And then and that's kind of part of the advice that I gave a young entrepreneur last week was you're the only one that's going to talk you out of doing this right now. You have no reason to not do this. Except for you're talking yourself out. So you need to go behave like your dream is going to become reality. And today is the day that you start making that progress.
Tina McIntosh 29:07
I used to have a trademark on today's the day by the way. I don't anymore. I let it go. Which is really a shame.
Cody Pittman 29:13
We used to say at the agency respect the growth like hey, if you're watching Sony grow, don't get in their way.
29:19
Yeah, yeah. Water them. Yeah. So I've had several people over the years, they when you were starting Joy's House, did people try to tell you not to do it? And my answer is no. But I don't know if nobody if anyone said like this is silly. Don't do this. Or this is risky. I didn't have any pride. I didn't have any money. Oh, what did I have to lose? Right? But the reality is, I'm sure somebody did. I'm sure if somebody tried to tell me it was a bad idea. And yet, here we are. And then when it came to caregiver way this visit caregiver way.com This newest caregiver platform that we are just so excited about I have had more people tell me not to do it. Now that was before we were doing it, because now that we're doing it, everybody's like, this is incredible. I'm like, I know. But when they couldn't see it right when it was just in our heads, and we were trying to explain it, they couldn't get, they couldn't catch the vision. But my sister who is one of those brilliant people said to me, just one day very casually, I don't think she has any idea how much it impacted me. She said, What if somebody had told you not to do Joy's House? What if you had listened to them? 25 years ago, think of all the lives that wouldn't be changed, including our own? Cuz she works here now, too. And I was like, Okay, we go forward. But, you know, it's like, just don't I don't know. I mean, yes, you're waiting for the No, but the no doesn't mean no. Right? Mean, no means now. But you move on to somebody else that might have an interest in it, or be able to catch your vision.
Cody Pittman 31:00
When somebody says no to a customer in sales, right? I've been a salesperson almost my entire career at this point. I didn't plan on that one, either. I didn't think I'd be a salesperson. When a customer a lead tells you no, I'm trying to sell them Duett or whatever my project is. They say no. Yeah. Okay. One, I respect that. But can you help us? Can you help me understand what would have made this a "Yes." And they might say something that is unreasonable for you to accomplish, right? Like when, with Duett. They're like, "Oh, we want to billing component." I'm like, Duett has no business building a billing component on our software. Because we'd have to do that state by state. And it would be it would be an astronomical cost. But it's like, that's the thing for this customer to say no, I'm like, Alright. You told me no, I learned something about what you needed. And I've also validated that it's not for us to do for you. So we're not a great fit. Then you go on to somebody that says yes, you're like, perfect.
Tina McIntosh 31:59
It's not always about you either. Right, right. I mean, it might be a budget issue, it might be you got the wrong person. Or it might be that that right person ticked off the person who makes the final decision the day before. I mean, who knows what it is, but yeah, I I'm excited for all of the the innovative things that are starting to come out, you know, that I'm seeing around and particularly in this area of, of healthcare, innovation, I think the one thing I wish that we would do a little bit better in this area, if I may take this opportunity is collaborate.
Cody Pittman 32:31
Yeah, I think the the interesting thing is on that is when you go like hardcore, startup entrepreneurship technology, it's kind of like you kind of want to hide your candle and be like, you guys don't get to see it until I have a blazing torch. Yes. Or I'm not going to tell you the secret sauce, I'm not going to tell you who my investors are, what the other ideas that we have. Because we feel like some a competitor can pop up at any moment and and take away the vision. But in this specific industry, it really does take collaboration, because there are so many moving pieces there's pay there actually does dovetail into my question, my next question, but you've got the crossed the crossroads between public and private sector, you have nonprofits, you have government agencies, for profit insurance, you've got caregivers, big small business all intersecting around individuals, their health care, they'reall that.
Tina McIntosh 33:35
A lot of dominoes,
Cody Pittman 33:36
Right. You can't. No one company, no one person is going to handle all that. Yeah. We had a great call last week, with all those potential collaborators on the call. That was really interesting to see. When we were on together. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, actually, that's funny. That was the one of the first things I said to you. In that Zoom call, when I first saw you on that panel was like, hey, what do these entrepreneurs and innovators from outside of this space when we finally shine a spotlight gets shown on here? What What should we do? And it's, it's why it's actually interesting for Jonathan and I to sit here, because I come from 15 years outside of this industry. Right? And Jonathan has been 15 years inside the industry. And when we smash our heads together, I'm like, I still doesn't make sense to me, but let's keep going.
Tina McIntosh 34:27
I I feel your pain.
Cody Pittman 34:30
But that that that kind of intersection here is part of my next question, which is I think it's been really interesting to see how supportive and unified in Indiana the FSSA so Family Social Services Administration, in the Division on Aging, I think it's really interesting, how supportive they've been of Caregiver Way. How did that happen?
Tina McIntosh 34:53
How did that happen? Uhm... the Director of the Division of Aging at the time. We were introduced to her by someone who I mean, I can't remember. And we sat down and said, Here is something we're thinking about doing with Caregiver Way. She is a highly intelligent person and she caught the vision. And at the same time, I think the timing, you know, it's you are where you are. They had been working on their strategic plan. And one of the identified gaps they had was online support for family caregivers. And the more we talked about the product, and we started to be able to show her kind of the prototypes of where we were headed. She was able to work from the inside, and we were working from, if you will, the outside of the division to say here is a potential solution to the problem now slow as molasses. Because it's just, you know, it's it's the government, and that's not a knock on them. It's a reality. So I think that took two and a half years, okay, yeah. For that to come through. And as is whenever you get any kind of state or federal dollars, every penny is spent before you get it. And you better spend that Penny where you say you're going to spend it. And so it's been an incredible relationship. When we did get the strategic plan. I remember calling the director and saying, Hey, I see here on page, you know, whatever it was right long page. This solution for the problem in the state of Indiana being an online caregiver platform, is this caregiver way. And she said, we sure hope so. We said, okay, okay, pressures on now. Yeah. This thing, you know? Yeah, it's it's just kind of been a Cinderella story and how it's worked out?
Cody Pittman 36:43
Yeah. I think the reception,
Tina McIntosh 36:45
but a lot of work. So I'm sorry to cut you off. You're good. But I do want to say and I think if Jonathan were sitting here, this is something he reminds us of, too. We have been working for 25 years in this space, right? We have proven by reputation, we've proven by care, we proven by our willingness to, to change things as needed for the people that we're serving. We never chase $1 Like, you know, I'm not saying they just come to us, but we're not going to create a program just to get funding. We've proven over time. And I think trust is one of the biggest things when it comes to launching new anything. If you don't have the trust in the people that you're serving, or who are your stakeholders, your investors or whatever they are to you. You're done. I mean, it's like what I tell my teenagers right at home, once you lose your dad and my trust, we have a whole next level problem. Right? We can work through anything if we trust each other. Yeah. So anyway, sorry, go.
Cody Pittman 37:46
You've said. There are a couple things that I from previous conversations, I understand that you can't really share quite yet. I know what those contracts often look like NDAs and whatnot. What can you share about what's next for Caregiver Way?
Tina McIntosh 38:02
Oh, my golly, so much. So visit caregiverway.com is the name the domain name, caregiver ways the platform, we will be at just getting hot thinking about it. We will be going live, if you will, on July 1. We expect 1000s of people to be using the platform like not instantly I'm not you know, I haven't lost it. On July 1 1000s of people were using it. But by the end of the year 1000s of people will be using it and the responses, I wish I could just tell you who these people are that are going to be partnering with us the responses when we sit down with a product and share them with either, you know, a managed care entity or a private care company. We will be sharing about a university we're partnering with cool when we sit down and show that to them. They're like, why would we not do this? I'm like, I don't know. Like, why would you not do this? Where's the loss in any of this for any of us? So you're out? You know, handfuls of 1000s of dollars, however many that is for your company. Okay? Right a percent. Now, what we do recognize though, Cody is that these companies and individuals are also taking a risk on us. And so my board has come back on a couple occasions and said, Hey, I know we're entering into this contract for a contract for X amount. Shouldn't it be bigger? And I'm like, I hear you. And we haven't even gone live yet with the product. Like they are also taking a chance on us. And so I think sometimes we get a little too. My husband, southern Indiana coming out but a little too big for our britches. Right, where we're like, Well, this is worth this is worth, you know, a quarter of a million dollars, but yeah, it is. But no one's bought it yet. Is that fair to say? Totally. So I get the value Oh, yeah. And what let's work together. What other value can you bring? We don't. So here's something we have one company that came back to us and said, yes, we want in. And I'm gonna make up numbers here. Sure, I'm just gonna make up numbers $10. And we will be a partner for $10. That's not the amount. But we would like for dollars of that to be in kind. We have great media connections. Wonderful. Tell me about these media connections. And we came back and thought about it and said, da, we would spend more of our time trying to get those media connections, but if they're going to take us along on a ride with them, fine. Yeah, pay us the $6. Let's do the $4 in kind. Let's do this thing. Right? So
Cody Pittman 40:43
I think the a good motivation for this podcast was, hey, let's see if we can influence one, social worker, one case manager, one caregiver also take an entrepreneurial journey to innovate in that can lead to bigger, outsized impact, that's been the main motivator, it'll be really interesting as we talk to more people, or maybe bring you back a year from now. And you've had a year more of Caregiver Way. To see how our conversations change, because at some point, finances are going to be a part of the conversation. And one of the one of the reasons that Duett got created was to have the impact that the that the technology can have. But it is also a revenue making opportunity for some of the organizations that we work with are our partners. And so here's an example, you make a $200,000 investment into an innovation project. That business grows and operates, it generates revenue and employs people it has its impact. And then it sells we call in in startup, you call it multiples, right? You invest $200,000, and then you sell it for 10x. Five years later. So you invest $500,000, you sell it for 10x. Later, all of a sudden, you turn $500,000. And anywhere from two and a half million to $5 million. I mean, minus fees. But that's why that's why entrepreneurs do what they do is like, hey, yes, they want to solve the problem, you will have to want to solve the problem to really make any progress if nobody gets into it, because they're like, Oh, I just want to go do this thing. Most people have a passion around the problem. But how awesome would it be to do all those things? Plus generate revenue? Yes, other people can do it again.
Tina McIntosh 42:38
Right. And even though like we chose to set up as not for profit, we still want to make a profit. Right? I mean, and we were smart, because Jonathan helped advise us on this through Wrinkle. We were smart, in saying. We're gonna set it up as a separate entity, LLC, underneath the Joy's House umbrella. And we hired the attorney, we put out that cost to write everything up so that when that day comes, somebody does want to buy it, and we're like, okay, good, we'll continue. And we're done with it. For whatever reason, I don't know, I can't see when that is, you know, that we are prepared, then to pull that apart from Joy's House and be able to sell it. I will also say fight for what it is you want. So let me give you a practical example. And then I have a question for you. The practical example is we said caregiver way has to be empathetic. How do you make a website empathetic? How do you make it welcoming and inviting an empathetic, we had a tech company in the beginning, we just could not see eye to eye on that. We're no longer working with that tech company, we now work with build boundless. And even at that, and if Jason Ward were sitting here with Bill, boundless, you know, we were like, how do we get empathy into the site? Like, how is that a thing that's there. And it wasn't a fight with Jason, it was a fight to make it happier, right? We did that if you go to it, you'll see and you'll understand that but one of my best things is when people go into the site when I'm sharing it, and they say, it just feels really good and welcoming. And it's no different than how Joy's House felt when we first built the four walls here for our adult day program. And people would come in and say, I just want to stay right. And that is you have to fight for what you want, even if you can't find it, you know, out there. So and sometimes you just lose the fight, but we didn't in this case, though.
Cody Pittman 44:27
I also know Jason. And but what you described was like, hey, there's there's just saying iron sharpens iron. Yes, right. Pressure makes diamonds. You There are lots of ways to say the same thing. But it's like, hey, when you're when you're trying to refine an idea that friction is necessary to refine an idea, and it's
Tina McIntosh 44:47
okay. Yeah. I mean, I think Jason was sitting here I said something to him one one day on the on a call and where I was like, No, you may know this because I wrote about it in my book where I was like, I'm putting my foot down and then I was like, Okay, I'm so stupid. I just So I'm putting my foot down. But I wasn't very nice about it to Jason about something, because there was that friction. And then I went back to him. And I was like, Dude, I'm sorry. Like, I was passionate, and it came out probably the wrong way. And he was like, I didn't think twice about it. I'm like, Okay, I lost a little sleep. But we're cool, you know,
Cody Pittman 45:15
right. I can see, I can see you and Jason have a good relationship.
Tina McIntosh 45:20
We really do. Yeah, yeah, we really do. And he gets it. And I'm grateful. And the only reason Caregiver Way is as incredible as it is, or Joy's House, as incredible as it is. And we have other programs, too, is because of all these people. Yeah, you know, I get a lot of credit for being the founder. So where it goes, tiny little seed, you know. So I want to give kudos to, in particular Jonathan, and Wrinkle Innovation, but Cody that you too, you know, like, and that's you too. Caregiver Way itself would be nothing without that support, and that leadership and us being able to come back, you know, to Jonathan, and be like, we don't know what we're doing with us. And he coaches us through. And so if somebody has an idea, you talked about the social workers and other folks like, if you have an idea, and you think, Man, this is just, I've lost it like this is not ever going to happen. I would ask you to hesitate for a minute and just send an email to Jonathan or Cody. Let's say, Hey, listen, I was listening to the podcast, I've done my homework on you all. And I have this idea. And it seems a little far fetched. And I have no idea what I'm talking about, except for and pitch it. Right. And y'all may say, let's talk about it further. Or here's somebody else to talk with. Or it was really nice getting your email. But it until you get that No, right. You're the only one standing in your way. You're right. That's right. I mean, you said that that was a post-it quote. So
Cody Pittman 46:51
I think if you send an email to me, you're gonna get a cheerleader. Maybe not maybe not too critical. I'm not typically the really critical one. You'll get a cheerleader or some maybe post-it note quote, yeah, but if you talk to Jonathan, you're gonna get really practical advice to help you to refine the idea or a next step or something like that. Yeah. Okay.
Tina McIntosh 47:13
How do they do that?
Cody Pittman 47:16
I guess you should go to support@duet.io. further notice,
Tina McIntosh 47:24
okay, Duett D U
Cody Pittman 47:26
E T T.io. Yeah.
Tina McIntosh 47:28
Okay. All right. Yeah. I'm gonna send so many ideas after we're done here, just to see what
Cody Pittman 47:33
Well actually we don't have the idea unless we come up with it. Noah, you could even unmute for this one. But originally, this was called what we might still actually call this podcast, the Care Blender, where ideas that seem like they maybe don't belong together come together. Last Last episode, we were sitting in the library, which was right across the street from high school. I said, What? And it had a cafe in it. And I said, what would it look like? If the high school and the local AAA and this library did a thing together, where every Thursday 10 65+ year olds came and sat in the cafe and 10 seniors from from the high school came and sat down, and they just had conversations and saw what that hat like what came out of that? Right? So we have a section of the podcast that we're kind of reserved for smashing disparate ideas together.
48:32
Okay, I like that. And I like in some ways, I like the visual of it in other ways. I think of the bass ematic from SNL. You guys are too young for that. Look it up bass ematic
Cody Pittman 48:43
I'll link the SNL Youtube at the bottom.
Tina McIntosh 48:46
Anybody over the age of 50 right now is like oh my gosh. I did like skip though, when you introduce Kip, when you said what it stood for
Cody Pittman 48:55
Social care innovation podcast, so S.C.I.P
Tina McIntosh 48:58
I don't know I liked the way that felt. But it didn't. It wasn't as much health care, right? Right. See you almost needed the tagline with that, but
Cody Pittman 49:07
Well Jonathan really wants care Blender. I really, but both of our wives are like what are you thinking?
Tina McIntosh 49:14
But is there another word? Something that mixes things up? Without being confusing
Cody Pittman 49:20
The nebulizer
Noah 49:23
I was gonna say I love Care Blender but I'm a big fan of smoothie so I might be biased.
Tina McIntosh 49:27
Well see I feel the same way like is there spinach in this podcast? Because I'm totally in...
Cody Pittman 49:31
Spirulina you know, AG-1 something really healthy.
Tina McIntosh 49:35
Look at you speaking like hippie dippie language, I like it.
Cody Pittman 49:37
I spent 10 years in San Francisco. It's hard to…
Tina McIntosh 49:40
You get it. Yeah, you're like a farmers market. Boy. I'll see you there on Saturday. And Thursday. Please do have me back in a year and here's why. Kind of what you're talking about with this whole blog which I love do the blender thing whatever it's called do it, right, the those conversations. Noah, it doesn't know this either. I have a big vision that I'm I'm not going to share here right now because we don't have time. Sure. I have a big vision for a physical location for something related to caregivers. I have had so many people tell me it's ridiculous. And let's talk about it near Yeah. It's called the corner. Right now. That would be the name right now but that could change, but ask me about it in a year.
Cody Pittman 50:25
The thing that comes to mind is like a respite campus for caregivers.
Tina McIntosh 50:29
We will discuss. Can't talk about it for a whole year. I don't know why I just put that limit on myself. Too much. I'm at capacity. Caregiver Way
Cody Pittman 50:37
What if 2am Tomorrow night I've got an idea write down and put it in a folder for two years or a year. Yeah. Well, Tina, thanks for having me. Noah, thank you for sitting in the chair and keeping us at a good level. Tina, thank you for your hosting. Thanks for doing this. I think you've got a Joy's House Open House. So if you're local Joy's House open house is coming up. Otherwise the website for Caregiver Way is visit caregiver way.com. And we would love to hear from you if you got ideas for other guests. Yeah, support S U PP O RT at duett duett.io (Support@duett.io) Any recommendations are open.
Tina McIntosh 51:17
Also, we will be at USAging with...
Cody Pittman 51:19
USAging. That's right.
Tina McIntosh 51:20
Yeah. In July, right July.
Cody Pittman 51:22
If you want a demo of Caregiver Way, live from the lady herself. USAging.
Tina McIntosh 51:29
I'm the lady. I'll be there. I can't wait. Thanks for doing this good stuff.
Cody Pittman 51:33
Thank you.
Note: This episode was transcribed by https://otter.ai. If you have suggestions for edits email support@duett.io.